ControlThink Forums

My neighbor's house was broken into yesterday, and suddenly I am wishing that I hadn't sent the Honeywell salesman packing, thinking that I'd do my own ZWave-based system.

I know y'all are using ZIR000s to turn your lights on and off, but I'm feeling the need to turn on and off a couple of sirens.  Something self-contained and nasty-sounding like an Elk SS30.

Sure I could connect the SS30 to a 12-volt supply and switch the AC side of the supply with an appliance module, but that seems like a kludge.

Has anybody tried a Boca Devices RelayZ?  ESI's DBMZ might work, but they don't sell to DIYs.

Also, does anybody know of a nice enclosure for an alarm relay board with an arm/disarm switch on the front panel?  It couldn't be a metal enclosure because I don't think the Boca Devices board has provision for an external antenna.

Thanks in advance.

This solution didn't turn me on either:

zwaveworld.com wrote:

If you need a wet contact at some other voltage than 120V what is typical is to use a 120 lighting switch to drive the coil on a relay and use the relay contacts to supply the proper power to the device. This solution can also be used to fake a dry contact using a standard lighting switch and a 120V coil relay.

Probably not the answer you are looking for but I use and Elk M1G which has the ability to control Z-Wave lighting. It's a little expensive but it works. Another option might be the Omni Pro II. I have not used it but I talked to a Pro install company this week who plans to use it with Z-Wave. IMO you can not beat the flexibility the elk gives you when you are doing things as a DIYer.

Thanks Squintz.  The M1G with ZWave interface is exactly what I need.  The web site says that the M1G can control ZWave lighting devices, but hopefully it can also process input from the ZIR000.

If there are no immediate plans for a rules-based, pure ZWave hardware solution, then I'll give the M1G a try.  I'm hoping the functionality of the MIG's ZWave interface is not crippled.  I'm also hoping the phone dialer can sieze the phone line for outgoing calls.

This sounds like fun.

Here's the disclaimer from the MIG ZWave interface manual:

The ELK-M1XZW incorporates a Z-Wave factory produced transceiver module and currently supports lighting and thermostat device categories ONLY. The current generation of Z-Wave devices do not broadcast or update state changes back to any controller device other than the one that commanded the change.  The results are that the M1 may not always accurately display the true state of the Z-Wave lighting devices.  In addition, a M1 rule 'event' cannot be activated by the state change of a Z-Wave light other than lights changed by a command from the M1 itself. In other words; The ELK-M1XZW and the M1 Control do not know if the state of a device has been changed by another controller such as a handheld remote. Likewise, another controller or a handheld remote will not know if the device state has been changed by the M1 and M1XZW. This is a Z-Wave issue and it is hoped that Z-Wave will remedy this in the future.

Sounds like we won't be monitoring any state changes from ZIR000s.  Too bad.

The following quote from HAI's Omni Pro II manual is a bit more promising:

HAI has worked in partnership with Leviton to support the advanced features of Leviton's ViziaRF series of lighting control devices, including lighting scenes and two way communications. . . . Each room can consist of a maximum of 8 Vizia RF and/or Z-Wave devices, configured as follows: Up to 7 Vizia RF or Z-Wave lighting devices (for controlling up to 7 lighting loads in a room or area) 1 or more pushbutton controllers . . . Controlling Vizia RF Z-Wave It is imperative that each unit be named. If a unit is not named, it will not show up in the list of rooms and loads that are able to be controlled. The only exception is for additional push button controllers. If you have assigned a Node ID to a Unit, but do not name it, the OmniPro II will interpret that as a push button controller, so Z-Wave messages from that push button controller will not be ignored.

This how-to article from ZWaveWorld uses the Elk M1 as an alarm, but uses wired motion sensors instead of the ZIR000.

He (Is that you Squintz?) doesn't really come out and say that the M1 can't handle input from ZWave devices, but I'm sure that if he could have used the ZIR000 he would have.

It looks like HomeSeer's Hometroller, together with the RS-232 version of the WGL Relay 8 might be the answer for a home security system using ZIR000 motion sensors.  It looks like there is provision for a Rain 8 interface as well.

The In-Touch Multi_Voltage High Current Contactor Module has two independently controllable SPST contacts.  I could wire the two relays in series, and use one relay to arm/disarm the siren from a ZWave remote, and control the other relay directly from  a CA9000 PIR.

The question now will be:  will the relay contacts work for low-voltage, low-current applications?

With this solution I can remain pure-ZWave, and I can have a siren anywhere that there is AC power.

Any suggestions for a robust 12-14VDC power supply for the siren?

Is the CA3750 available yet?

Any thoughts on whether a UPS is needed for each siren?  Will Stranger Danger cut the power to my house?  What happens when you feed the CA3750 with a square wave from a UPS?

PS:  I haven't given up on the fancy, autodialing control hub, but we all know that the cops aren't going to get there in time, and even if I got there in time, I couldn't do any shooting, or even hold the crook at gunpoint.  So why bother with an autodialer?  And you could set up a fancy closed circuit video recording system, but it will either record a familiar face who's been in and out of jail so many times that the cops have given up, or the cops won't know who it is or where to find him.  They're not going to put your home video on the 10 o'clock news, hoping that someone will recognize the perp. and call in.  The best bet is to make a lot of noise inside and outside the house.

Hi Gary,

We expect to get a few of the contactor modules in soon.

We have received all of the InTouch items we ordered (receptacles, dimmers, switches, motion sensors)--except for the contactor module.

Chris

It turns out that the InTouch multi-contactor device is a "multi-instance" device, meaning that it has a single ZWave chip, and most remotes can't control the second contactor.  You'll either need the ControlThink SDK or the InTouch CA7100 to access the second contact.  You can't assign each of the two available contacts to separate groups.

But the real trouble arrises with the motion sensor.  According to feedback on the InTouch forum, the motion sensor comes with installation instructions but not with programming instructions.  You will be referred to document 158CA12789, which is not available for download at the InTouch site, and only ships with the CA7100.  I went ahead and bought the motion sensor anyway.  I think there's enough information here and on other forums to get it working.

Just FYI--as Gary alluded to, we are adding a new feature to the upcoming 2.0 Z-Wave PC SDK which allows the user to turn on/off each instance of the contactor module separately...

Chris

Apparently the InTouch programming and user's manual is also being shipped with the CA5500BR base station/remote kit.  This option is more attractive to me since it doesn't require a 3-gang wall mount.

The multi-contactor installation manual says that the contacts can be controlled individually with the CA5500B.  However, the "InTouch Expert" on their forum says that only the CA7100 can access the second contactor.

I'm so confused.

So here's the plan if I went with the CA3750 multi-contactor:

1. Purchase and install a CA9000 PIR sensor in the great room.
2. Configure the CA9000 to turn on the great room's night light via an existing ViziaRF relay switch when motion is detected.
3. Purchase a CA5500BR base station/remote (I needed another remote anyway), CA3750 multi-contactor, ELK-SS36 indoor siren, ELK-SS30 outdoor siren, and a 14-VDC, 2-amp power supply (non-switching?).
4. Configure the CA5500B to close the CA3750's second contact when the CA9000 goes off (and keep the night light function).
5. Configure the CA5500B to close and open the CA3750's first contact when a button on the remote is pressed (this will arm and disarm the alarm, and I'll add key fobs later).
6. Wire the two CA3750 contacts in series to power the sirens.

Sounds like another kludge.  Too bad there isn't a standalone ZWave siren (and I've heard there are none in the pipeline).

This plan raises a few questions:

1. Should I control the AC side of the power supply or the load side?  Controlling the AC side may save energy, especially with a linear, non-switching supply.   How much current do switching-type power supplies draw when there is no load?  Would controlling the AC side result in surges on the load side?  If I control the load side, and left the power supply on full-time, would I then be more vulnerable to damage from brown-outs, etc? 
   
2. Does the CA5500BR have a timer function that could "bark" the siren when it is armed by momentarily closing the second contact on the CA3750?
3. Why not just mount a couple of  HomePro ZRW113X switches with isolated contacts in series, and do without the go-between CA5500BR?  Two switches are cheaper than one multi-contactor, but can I use them to control a low voltage circuit?

I guess my gyrations on this topic underscore the fact that ZWave was originally intended for lighting control and is not yet ready for home security.  I'm sure it's just a matter of time.

Edit:  Changed CA600 to CA9000 (it was wrong on one of Intermatic's pages).



. 

Well, I've jumped ahead and placed an order.  I'm sorry that this topic has drifted even further away from the ControlThink side of things, but I think I'll see it through here rather than risk the offense of cross-posting on another forum.

Anyway, Brandon (extension 205), the ZWave guru at Automated Outlet was most helpful in confirming that the ZRW113 with isolated contacts will work in this application.

We'll wire the contacts from those two ZRW113 switches in series.  We'll use a ZWave key fob, which is currently in the works, to remotely close the contact on Switch 1, enabling the sirens (until key fobs become available, we'll have to use a remote).  We'll use the InTouch motion detector(thanks Chris!) to close the contact on Switch 2.  When the sirens are disabled we can still use the events from the motion detector to turn on lights, etc.

I've got the following items on order:

1. ZRW113 (qty 2):  3-way ZWave switch with isolated contacts
   
2. ELK-SS30:  120dB, 12 VDC, 1.1 A, exterior stand-alone horn siren
3. ELK-SS36:  105dB, 12 VDC, 470 mA, interior stand-alone siren
4. ELK-P412:  12 VDC, 4 A, power supply/battery charger panel (will use this instead of a UPS to power control hub in the future)
5. ELK-PD9:  Power distribution panel with overload protection

I didn't order a structured wiring panel yet because I don't know what the dimensions of my future control hub will be.  I'm also wondering if a metal enclosure will kill the signal to these ZWave switches, which would be mounted on the door of the enclosure.  For now, I'll just mount the mess on a board.

The ELK-SS30 is painfully loud!  The SS36 is on back-order.

Considering the limited support currently available for multi-instance devices, the ZRW113 may not be the worst choice for implementing relay ladder logic in ZWave hardware.  It would be nice to have a rail mounting system, and we could lose the designer faceplate.

Does anybody have an idea on how to neatly gang-mount multiple light switches, with consideration for the need to transmit and receive RF?

Any ideas on a neat terminal strip for structured wiring of the logic?